Discuss your favorite verses, ask questions about passages, etc.

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awaitingchrist
 
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What version of the Bible do you use?Which is correct?

by awaitingchrist Fri May 23, 2003 8:04 pm

KJV here.........bring it on :cool: .
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KaintBkwite
 
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by KaintBkwite Fri May 23, 2003 10:40 pm

KJV mostly for studying. I have just about any other version here if I need to look at something in a different text, though. I recently got a Jerusalem Bible and another one taken from ancient Eastern manuscripts (which isn't too far off KJV). But, probably my favorite next to KJ would be the Amplified. I like how it expounds on word meanings.
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by i like glue Fri May 23, 2003 11:18 pm

does it matter? :?:
"for some reason when i'm playing music i am lost in the sounds, and my heart finds its place. God meets me there, i cannot explain it." ~ Micheal Pritzl ; the violet Burning

SKA SKA SKA SKA!!!
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which version?

by markjcollier Sat May 24, 2003 5:58 am

I have worked with and had friends for many years that feel that one particular version is the only one from God. I have researched it extensively and, although I could talk forever about each side, the only thing I feel that matters in this silly debate is this:

ARE YOU LIVING THE BASICS IN YOUR DAILY LIFE?

No matter what version you read you will get the same exact info 99.9999% of the time and the remaining 0.000001% is debatable as to whether it is different as well. HERE'S THE POINT: I have never met a person who wants to argue about the versions who has their daily life together to a point where the minute differences have ever had a chance to matter for them -- and I am one of those people (and I suspect that most of you are as well).

I will love to talk about this with everyone as long as we all agree that none of us have it all together and it is done in a spirit of love and with a teachable spirit on all sides -- otherwise, take it from me -- the topic ends up being nothing but devisive and only the devil is glorified from that.

Love you all!
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jett
 
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by jett Sat May 24, 2003 11:59 pm

since im planing to be a youth minister i read them all. i love how NKJ is writen and INV is good for understanding - good for bible study.message is alright- not to impressed about it. bottem line if i reaches people, impowers, and inspires to be close to the Lord and no one else except the Lord then preach it, teach it, and read it.
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by awaitingchrist Mon May 26, 2003 8:25 am

Mark, you say it does not matter what version you use? That they are all just basically the samething in different words?

Ok I'm going to use the NIV as my example here since so many people use it: If you have an NIV do me a favor and turn to Matt 17:21. What? Not there? Ok try 1 John 5:8. This verse was viewed as detrimental to the NIV; in the KJV it goes like this:

"6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."

Now those who wrote the NIV didnt like this verse too much. So they took it out, but then they realized that people would see that it was missing. So what they did was divide Verse 7 into two. If you look at your NIV and the above KJV you will notice this discrepancy.

Now I can stand here and list verses that were taken out of the Bible in the NIV all day. And while that is definitely a bad thing, there is a whole lot more damage done by the way that the NIV was written. You see, God did not say "Oh yeah as long as it says something about, you know, forgiveness and love, they've still got it right." That's absurd! Words matter. The problem with today's culture is that we've come to want readibility instead of accuracy. Go into any christian bookstore and you'll see how many choices of the Bible that you will have, how commercialized its become.

And believe me, that is what the devil wants. He wants us to believe that it doesn't really what version of the Bible you have. This has paved the way for versions of the "bible" that nothing more than laughable, like "The Living Version" and "The message". But God promised that throughout the ages, he would preserve his word for us, that there would always remain his word intact. Right in Psalms 12:7 (Note: This is the KJV version, the NIV changed it to look like God was talking about the jews)

" 6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."

Words are not interchangeable, God chose what he said for a reason.

{Note} I edited to put this in:

HERE'S THE POINT: I have never met a person who wants to argue about the versions who has their daily life together to a point where the minute differences have ever had a chance to matter for them


Mark, that's a personal attack, you're avoiding the issue. That's attacking the character or validity of the assault, but you're not refuting the issue, nor are you presenting any sort of organized reason of why. And of course, I would also love to see some scripture to back up the view that the God's word can be subverted to accomodate the present culture's lingo.
Last edited by awaitingchrist on Mon May 26, 2003 5:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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markjcollier
 

by markjcollier Mon May 26, 2003 4:58 pm

Cool! It really looks like you have some passion on this thing! Don't lose that. I will private message you about some thoughts I have and if we want to we can continue this here.

I am curious on a couple of things though:

What exactly is the agenda of the NIV translators that they are protecting so much by omitting Matthew 17:21 and 1 John 5:8. When reading these passages there is nothing in them that isn't supported in others parts of the Bible in both the NIV and the KJV. I guess if they wanted to omit a particular theology, they did a pretty poor job cuz they should have omitted much more cuz I accidentally believed the rest of the stuff they left in! OOPS!

You keep referring to how the NIV "changed" the KJV. You are aware that the NIV was not translated from the KJV, right? It was translated from older manuscripts in many cases -- that is why there are differences. Some would say that they older ones are the ones more likely to be closer to the original.

Give me an example of something that you believe in that exists in the KJV but NOT in the NIV. Anything. Seriously...

Your quoting of Psalm 12:7 is out of context. Read the chapter in the KJV and tell me again that the topic is the preservation of God's Word and not the poor and the needy.

Read Psalm 8:4 and tell me why KJV translated the Hebrew word for God as "angels."

My point? You are passionate for God and for accuracy and I commend you for that. DO NOT LOSE THAT!!!!!! Just check out your facts and work on your contextual reading. Don't change translations -- I don't want you to. Just focus on leading others to a saving knowledge of Christ and teaching them to be disciples of Him, not a saving knowledge of your translation. You are obviously a man in love with God and His Word -- for that you are AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!! :cool:
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by awaitingchrist Mon May 26, 2003 5:31 pm

Wow, thanks for the compliment :), I really do feel strongly about versions but I never let it cloud or inhibit my presentation of the gospel to the lost. I believe that it is possible for someone to get saved in a version like the NIV but the maturing christian who hungers for the word, yeah there it turns into a debate ;) .

1. The NIV was not translated out of the KJV. At the time there were two running lines of ancient texts, these Bible scholars have referred to as the corrupted and the uncorrupted texts. I was just comparing the respective translations. Sorry :).

2. Psalm chapter 12 is a perfect example of the difference between the two texts. Verses 1-5 talk about people being oppressed yeah. But then in verse six it changes the theme:

(KJV)"6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."

(NIV)"6 And the words of the LORD are flawless,
like silver refined in a furnace of clay,
purified seven times. 7 O LORD , you will keep us safe
and protect us from such people forever."

What exactly does verse 7 have to do with verse 6?(In the NIV).
The words of the Lord, it doesn't get much simpler than that.

3. I believe its verse 5 that you are referring to:

"4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour."

Don't really see your contention there with what you've given me. Hebrews 2:7 affirms:

1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. 2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? 5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

Scripture interprets scripture, I love it :) .

Anyway that's all I can think of for now, keep it up, sounds good :).
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by markjcollier Mon May 26, 2003 5:33 pm

Allow me to clarify: The Word will certainly lead you to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. It will also lead you into a life of discipleship and deeper knowledge of Him and His will. I just meant that we should preach Christ and His Word, not a particular version to the exclusion of all else.

Thank you. Now bow your eyes and close your heads. If anyone has a mother, come down front. There will be refreshments in the lobby and you can buy a copy of my CD. I am the walrus, coo-coo cachoo. (can you tell I work with Jr, High?)
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by markjcollier Mon May 26, 2003 6:09 pm

Psalm 12:5-7
The point I was making is actually moot since we both agree that God is active in preserving His Word. What I was getting at was that if you read the verses straight through in context it is clear he is not talking about preserving His Word but preserving the poor and needy. There are many other times God says that He will preserve His Word, but this is contextually not one of them.
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iamsozo
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by iamsozo Mon May 26, 2003 6:19 pm

I personally don't like to debate this much. I have a NKJ cause that is the one that felt right for me. I like the way it is written over the NIV. And yet is still easier to read over the KJ. But these are my personal views.

However, I have come to realize that argueing over some matters can do more harm than good. And this is one of them. We need to be less dogmatic sometimes about things not required for salvation. And trust the Holy Spirit to teach and make changes that need made.

A friend of mine was saved roughly 7 yrs ago. He started reading the NIV. He read the whole thing in like 8 days. And he has been reading his bible pretty much daily ever since. But when he was still young and growing in Christ some people that were dogmatic about the KJ got a hold of him. It caused him some serious stuggles. We are not suppose to do things to make our brothers and sisters stummble. God, by His grace and love took control of the situation and set him back on his feet. He is getting ordained next month.

My point is that some things are better left to the Holy Spirit. If it is not written in scripture then we should not try to press it upon others. If you think you are right then pray for God to open the eyes of others. Or do you think He is unable without your help.

I know that you guys are just having a friendly debate. And that is fine. Makes the Word more interesting to learn for some. Just please, be careful not to make others stummble.

Thank you, and happy debating!
iamsozo

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by markjcollier Mon May 26, 2003 6:38 pm

Thanks iamsozo! You are right on all counts. I can speak for awaitingchrist when I say that neither one of us want anyone to stumble. Hey, awaitingchrist, if it is ok with you, let's keep this to PMs for now to honor iamsozo's concerns, K? If anyone else "stumbles" on these posts and comes off less than loving on either side, it could go south real quick and we would kinda be the cause. Cool? You guys are both blessings! Thanks for being here on the board!

Mark
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by awaitingchrist Mon May 26, 2003 10:08 pm

Not a problem Mark :). I aim not to argue for the sake of "Oh you disagree with me? You're going down." Far from it. I believe that presenting our views and going through the reasons of why we believe what we believe can only make us stronger as Chrisitans. But I wouldn't want anyone to "stumble" I guess...to be honest I'm not really sure what you mean Sozo. But yeah, I know what you mean (I think). Bittersome, quarrelsome legalistic debates can grate on my nerves too.

But hey, two guys testing metal to metal, that's iron sharpening iron ;).

Ah, it's 11 o'clock, I'm going to bed :cool: .
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by Guest Tue May 27, 2003 8:36 am

The correct version woule be the Aramaic/Hebrew version. The translation to the Greek called the sepugent (spelling) was just that...a translation, then there were Greek and Latin writings to New testament Churches. Then from that text all together King James had it translated. That's all that is...a translation. If I gave a letter in German to my mother in law and also to Jules and Dora (Germans on this board as members) I guarantee, I would get 3 different English translations. Due to the fact that they all have differing dialects, and the translation of the words into english may be more modern with Jules, and may be old school with my mother in law. Which translation is correct? Do you see my point? If I gave the Torah to 2 different Rabbi's and asked them to read it to me, but to translate it into English, I would get slightly varying English Translation of the Original. So Your arguement in my opinion is one that has a slight misleading intention....not on purpose mind you, but to argue that the King James is the ONLY version is a flawed arguement since it too is a translation of a translation. I'm not trying to anger you so don't feel as if you have to be defensive...I'm not attacking you. Good topic I believe....thank you for posting it.

carl
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iamsozo
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by iamsozo Tue May 27, 2003 4:16 pm

awaitinginChrist,

I will try to explain. However since it was his stummbleing I might not get it quite right.

When he got saved and studied the NIV, God brought him to some understandings. When these people attacked the NIV and insisted that the KJ was the only one, it threw doubts into what he thought he understood from God. Of coarse hi understanding was still correct, but these people condemning the NIV forced doubt into his relationship with God. It is easy for us, no matter how old, to at least start to doubt. It is very easy to cause doubt in a new christian. This cause him trouble or to stumble. The bible is very clear that we should not argue over such things as it will do more harm than good. And it also warns us sharply about causeing His children to stumble.

I am a lover of debating. Just ask KaintBkwite. Problem is, sometimes I don't see the harm I cause trying to prove my point. Even if I prove myself right, its not worth the problems that I cause along the way. Take KaintBkwite for example. When I first came to the board she and I debated alot. Of coarse we are both stuborn and neither of us would budge. That is all fine and good, but it turns out she thought I didn't like her. And I thought she wasn't too fond of me either. By the grace of God, and our persistance we now are close friends. She is my sister and I love her. But more damage could have been done and it would not have been worth showing her that I AM RIGHT! j/k Gigi ;)
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Strengthening the souls of the Disciples, exhorting them to continue in faith, and saying, "We must through many tribulations enter the Kingdom of God."
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KaintBkwite
 
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by KaintBkwite Wed May 28, 2003 7:35 am

Of course you're right Sozo! Always.












*in your dreams* :p


hehehe....you know I love you bro, right or wrong!
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by MetalAngel! Wed May 28, 2003 7:10 pm

King James Version!
It is based on the actual intended text, not the text perverted by westcott/hort and others.
Any version that says "immorality" rather than "adultery" is seriously leaving something to "interpretation of the reader," instead of just flat-out telling the TRUTH.
The niv is a "translation" based on a perverted text.
All other versions are "interpretations," what other people interpret it to mean.
"The message" is the worst, as of yet. Anything that quotes the pagan "as above, so below" is a JOKE, and a satanic one at that!
There is plenty of information on this subject.
Any other questions, please ask.
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
(Galatians 2:20)
awaitingchrist
 
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by awaitingchrist Wed May 28, 2003 7:16 pm

...I like your style :D .
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markjcollier
 

by markjcollier Thu May 29, 2003 7:18 am

"Intended text"... interesting. I am not sure I want to ask about where that phrase came from. I am sure that I like you, not sure about the style... :eek:

In my limited experience I have noticed that my friends who are KJV only really came on strong and antagonistic from the git-go even toward total strangers, turning them off to what they had to say with their style to the point where the "truth" they might have had was lost beneath the lack of tact. I am not sure why that has been a consistent character trait -- maybe my experience does not accurately represent the whole but it seems consistent...

I would caution you to continue to seek God and proclaim the Truth that He has shown you, but do it in a way that people can hear it because, if they are so turned off by the aggressiveness that they never get to digest the Truth for what it is, we have done them a monumental disservice.

Think statements through. Keep the Truth. Jettison the aggressive language and fight phrases.

I hope you hear my heart here. I believe I have heard yours and it is one that beats strongly for the Lord and that I love.
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by HappyG Thu May 29, 2003 11:07 am

i personally really like NLT. i'm not exactly the fast person on understanding some of the older translations of the Bible, have tried KJV and get confused. Picked up NLT at gospelland and love it. but then, it got lost at a youth rally. so anyway, for graduating from high school, my church gave all the seniors a student NIV bible, which I like too, and it's easy to understand, but I really enjoy NLT. I also like the message, if you want to be brief and to the point, but it really takes the Bible and compacts it into where you think it was edited for space constraints. so i can't say that's the best way to go, but want a copy just for research. one of our pastors is a firm believer in NAS (but he's a Bible Scholar, so he jumps around and uses different translations to emphasize different things, and boy does it work), but the rest go straight NIV. but i don't bash translations, unless they're ACTUALLY cutting stuff from the Bible. As long is it show's God's word, then I don't care. just give me something I can understand!
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