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EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 11 & 12

by Kevin Young Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:16 pm

This week we will be discussing EZEKIEL Chapters 11 & 12. After you read the chapters, please take time to post….

1. Your favorite passages from Chapters 11 & 12
2. Things that challenged you
3. Any special insights that you would like to share with us
4. Any questions that you may have
5. Any related thoughts at all
(This is just a guideline and doesn't have to be followed exactly)

We welcome all opinions and no question is ever a "dumb" question. We want everyone to feel welcome and have the freedom to share whatever they may like. The only thing we ask is that while sharing your opinion, please be respectful to others. In short, disagree without being rude and hurtful. Also, if you are reading these posts and part of the Bible Study but feel like you don't have anything to add or post, we would ask that you please at least check in and post that you are reading with us so that we know you are there. Even when you don't say anything, it is encouraging just knowing that people are in our group with us. We all learn so much from these studies, so with that being said….. LET'S GO!!!!
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Re: EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 11 & 12

by ECCENTRICSHEEP Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:26 am

11:13 Now as I was prophesying, Pelatiah son of Benaiah died. Then I fell facedown and cried out in a loud voice, “Alas, Sovereign Lord! Will you completely destroy the remnant of Israel?”

Reformation Study Bible:
11:13 Pelatiah.
This name means “Yahweh provides escape.” When this man dies suddenly and unexpectedly during Ezekiel’s vision, Ezekiel fears that all hope of escape died with him. The prophet intercedes with the Lord once again on behalf of the remnant. See note 6:8; cf. 9:8.


That was an interesting time for a man whose name means "Yahweh provides escape" to die. It makes me think of more of those who are disobedient...that they can't escape God's wrath. Of course Ezekiel would be wondering if any of his people are going to make it out of this.


11:14 The word of the Lord came to me: 15 “Son of man, the people of Jerusalem have said of your fellow exiles and all the other Israelites, ‘They are far away from the Lord; this land was given to us as our possession.’


So because they are not there that means they are far from God. Well it would feel like that to them. To be away from their city and their temple where God's presence is. Even now we know God is everywhere at all times, yet we can still feel like he is far away some days. It feels even more like that when we are lost in sin and slowly separate ourselves every moment we don't repent. I haven't been as repenting lately as I should. Oh and God found a way to get me to admit that didn't he?


11:16 “Therefore say: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Although I sent them far away among the nations and scattered them among the countries, yet for a little while I have been a sanctuary for them in the countries where they have gone.’

Reformation Study Bible:
11:16 sanctuary.
Since the exiles were far from the temple in Jerusalem, God Himself would substitute as their sanctuary. Jesus later would take the place of the temple (Matt. 26:61; 27:40; John 2:19), and through the Spirit His followers would become His temple (1 Cor. 3:16, 17; 2 Cor. 6:16; 1 Pet. 2:5).


You are never away from God's presence because he is with you always. Even those few exiles who were not killed God still was with them.
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Re: EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 11 & 12

by notebooknut Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:15 am

First off, wanna say I'm sorry for not participating in this part of the study...I've been having trouble wrapping my mind around it. But I'm going to try again!

7 “Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: The bodies you have thrown there are the meat and this city is the pot, but I will drive you out of it. 8 You fear the sword, and the sword is what I will bring against you, declares the Sovereign Lord.


This was the time where the people were ridiculously evil, right? So right now God is like, "I find your lack of faith disturbing...and now you're going to pay for it." sorry, had to add that Darth quote there. In honor of the new movie! It's so close!

Then you will know that I am the Lord.


This is so simple, but shivers snaked down my spine when I read that. Shooo! Yeah, believer, or non- one day every knee will bow and every tongue confess that he is Lord.

17 “Therefore say: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will gather you from the nations and bring you back from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you back the land of Israel again.’


So like, he's gonna wipe 'em out, but then return Israel to the people, right? That's so great. Me and my Dad were talking the other day, and most people don't get why God ever commanded people to kill off his enemies. And there's a simple answer: the cup of their inequity was FULL. They couldn't get more evil! Yes, God made those people, and YES, he LOVED them even in their wickedness- but the people who WERE following Him were very easily persuaded and if they were persuaded- then there would be no more followers! It needed to be done! God is a loving God. But He is also just. We can't forget that.

18 “They will return to it and remove all its vile images and detestable idols. 19 I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh.


"Our heart's made of stone- callous and bone, fracture and tear it out- to let this go, and to think- I called it my own..." - Nine Lashes, Anthem of the Lonely

Hey, I got most of it! Cool! :cool:
- Maddie

"Opposite as the day and night
As different as the sun and moon is
This is the reality of my duality
This WE needs to become a ME!"
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Re: EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 11 & 12

by ECCENTRICSHEEP Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:42 am

Well here's 2 things on 11:3, they're a little different from each other.

Reformation Study Bible:
11:3 cauldron . . . meat.
The leadership of Jerusalem had already been deported by Nebuchadnezzar in 597 b.c.; this deportation included much of the royal family, the leaders of the military, and the craftsmen, leaving only “the poorest people of the land” (2 Kin. 24:13–16). Those who rose to prominence in the absence of the earlier ruling class appear to have had delusions of grandeur. The analogy they used of a cauldron and meat seems to mean that they considered those who had been deported from the city as the waste parts of a butchered animal, while they were the best parts.

Matthew Henry's Commentary:

They are conscious to themselves of such an enmity to reformation that they cannot but conclude it will come at last; but they have such an opinion of God’s patience (though they have long abused it) that they are willing to hope it will not come this great while. Note, Where Satan cannot persuade men to look upon the judgment to come as a thing doubtful and uncertain, yet he gains his point by persuading them to look upon it as a thing at a distance, so that it loses its force: if it be sure, yet it is not near; whereas, in truth, the Judge stands before the door.

Now, if the destruction is not near, they conclude, Let us build houses; let us count upon a continuance, for this city is the caldron and we are the flesh. This seems to be a proverbial expression, signifying no more than this, “We are as safe in this city as flesh in a boiling pot; the walls of the city shall be to us as walls of brass, and shall receive no more damage from the besiegers about it than the cauldron does from the fire under it. Those that think to force us out of our city into captivity shall find it to be as much at their peril as it would be to take the flesh out of a boiling pot with their hands.”
THE ECCENTRIC SHEEP MUSINGS

TO THOSE IN THE FIGHT AGAINST DEPRESSION
http://jesuswired.com/eccentric-sheep-m ... epression/

SELF INJURY AWARENESS DAY POST
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Re: EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 11 & 12

by lappinglivingwater Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:09 am

I would agree with Matthew Henry on this one. The elders seem to be saying, "Don't worry. Keep living your lives the way you are. We're safe in this cauldron and no one can hurt us." The cauldron is cast iron - secure - just like the "iron pan" that Ezekiel put between himself and the picture of the city of Jerusalem in Ezekiel 4:3. But God says He will be the one to take them out of their secure pot, and He'll use a sword (that sword being Nebuchadnezzar) to do it.

I wouldn't kid myself to think that the people living in Ezekiel's time, or the people living during Jesus' ministry whom He called a "wicked generation", were much worse than our societies are today. Christian nations today increasingly turn themselves away from God's instructions and change laws to do exactly what He said not to do. No, the people of ancient Israel in Ezekiel's time, and the people in Israel during Jesus' ministry, were examples. Examples to that final generation that would walk the earth before His return, people who would be part of the great apostasy that Paul talks about in 2 Thessalonians 2. We have to pay attention to the spiritual barometer of what is going on in our time, and how it compares to the warnings we were given of the examples in the Bible.
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My posts reflect what I believe; please don't take them as me telling you what you have to believe - your time in study and prayer will tell you that.
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Re: EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 11 & 12

by ECCENTRICSHEEP Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:31 am

That fits with what false prophets said too. That everything is fine and don't worry about it.
THE ECCENTRIC SHEEP MUSINGS

TO THOSE IN THE FIGHT AGAINST DEPRESSION
http://jesuswired.com/eccentric-sheep-m ... epression/

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Re: EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 11 & 12

by ECCENTRICSHEEP Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:53 am

Speaking of that!

12:26 The word of the Lord came to me: 27 “Son of man, the Israelites are saying, ‘The vision he sees is for many years from now, and he prophesies about the distant future.’



Reformation Study Bible:
The Old Testament uses a number of criteria for distinguishing true from false prophecy. These criteria focus on what the message was, how it was received, and who received it.

(a) The preeminent criterion for true or false prophecy is the fulfillment of the prophet’s words (Deut. 18:21, 22). His message must not contradict earlier revelation (Deut. 13:1–5). The message of a true prophet often ran against popular sentiment, and the prophets were persecuted because of their unpopular pronouncements (Jer. 20:7–10; 38:1–13; cf. Matt. 23:34, 35).

(b) Certain means of discerning God’s will were forbidden (Deut. 18:9–14), such as divination, spiritism, and sorcery. However, prophets could receive revelation through dreams and visions (Num. 12:6–8).

(c) The true prophet was admitted to God’s confidence (Jer. 23:18). The experience of admission to God’s counsel as if to a divine assembly was often reported in a call narrative (1:4–3:15 note). Finally, the prophet’s character had to be consistent with the glory of the God he served.



Yeah its not good to have that "It won't happen to me" attitude. Because it can happen to you.

12:28 “Therefore say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: None of my words will be delayed any longer; whatever I say will be fulfilled, declares the Sovereign Lord.’”
THE ECCENTRIC SHEEP MUSINGS

TO THOSE IN THE FIGHT AGAINST DEPRESSION
http://jesuswired.com/eccentric-sheep-m ... epression/

SELF INJURY AWARENESS DAY POST
https://jesuswired.com/eccentric-sheep- ... ury-story/
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Re: EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 11 & 12

by notebooknut Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:23 am

Guys, you amaze me. So flippin' wise.
- Maddie

"Opposite as the day and night
As different as the sun and moon is
This is the reality of my duality
This WE needs to become a ME!"
- Jonathan Thulin, Jekyll & Hyde
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Re: EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 11 & 12

by sassy1506 Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:57 am

11:12 And you will know that I am the Lord, for you have not followed my decrees or kept my laws but have conformed to the standards of the nations around you.”


It's kinda disturbing how many bits in these "Y'all are terrible people, let Me destroy you" chapters line up with what's going on today. We're gonna get nuked in the near future...

lappinglivingwater wrote:I wouldn't kid myself to think that the people living in Ezekiel's time, or the people living during Jesus' ministry whom He called a "wicked generation", were much worse than our societies are today. Christian nations today increasingly turn themselves away from God's instructions and change laws to do exactly what He said not to do. No, the people of ancient Israel in Ezekiel's time, and the people in Israel during Jesus' ministry, were examples. Examples to that final generation that would walk the earth before His return, people who would be part of the great apostasy that Paul talks about in 2 Thessalonians 2. We have to pay attention to the spiritual barometer of what is going on in our time, and how it compares to the warnings we were given of the examples in the Bible.


Amen, bro. The more we get into it, the more I'm seeing the parallels...

So I didn't have anything worthwhile to add, but I've been enjoying reading everyone's posts!
-Sam

"Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you" -James 4:7
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Re: EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 11 & 12

by ECCENTRICSHEEP Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:32 am

12:10 “Say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: This prophecy concerns the prince in Jerusalem and all the Israelites who are there.’ 11 Say to them, ‘I am a sign to you.’

“As I have done, so it will be done to them. They will go into exile as captives.

12 “The prince among them will put his things on his shoulder at dusk and leave, and a hole will be dug in the wall for him to go through. He will cover his face so that he cannot see the land. 13 I will spread my net for him, and he will be caught in my snare; I will bring him to Babylonia, the land of the Chaldeans, but he will not see it, and there he will die. 14 I will scatter to the winds all those around him—his staff and all his troops—and I will pursue them with drawn sword.


Matthew Henry's Commentary:
The prince shall in vain attempt to make his escape; for he also shall go into captivity. Jeremiah had told Zedekiah the same to his face (Jer. 34:3)

That he shall himself carry away his own goods: He shall bear upon his shoulder some of his most valuable effects. Note, The judgments of God can turn a prince into a porter. He that was wont to have the regalia carried before him, and to march through the city at noon-day, shall now himself carry his goods on his back and steal away out of the city in the twilight. See what a change sin makes with men! All the avenues to the palace being carefully watched by the enemy, they shall dig through the wall to carry out thereby. Men shall be their own house-breakers, and steal away their own goods; so it is when the sword of war has cancelled all right and property.

That he shall attempt to escape in a disguise, with a mask or a visor on, which shall cover his face, so that he shall be able only to look before him, and shall not see the ground with his eyes. He who, when he was in pomp, affected to be seen, now that he is in his flight is afraid to be seen; let none therefore either be proud of being looked at or over-much pleased with looking about them, when they see a king with his face covered, that he cannot see the ground.

That he shall be made a prisoner and carried captive into Babylon (Ezek. 12:13): My net will I spread upon him and he shall be taken in my snare. It seemed to be the Chaldeans’ net and their snare, but God owns them for his. Those that think to escape the sword of the Lord will find themselves taken in his net.

That all his guards should be dispersed and utterly disabled for doing him any service (Ezek. 12:14): I will scatter all that are about him to help him, so that he shall be left helpless; I will scatter them among the nations and disperse them in the countries (Ezek. 12:15), to be monuments of divine justice wherever they go.
THE ECCENTRIC SHEEP MUSINGS

TO THOSE IN THE FIGHT AGAINST DEPRESSION
http://jesuswired.com/eccentric-sheep-m ... epression/

SELF INJURY AWARENESS DAY POST
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Re: EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 11 & 12

by lappinglivingwater Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:13 am

Zedekiah was taken prisoner to Babylon, but wasn't able "to see" it, because they gouged out his eyes before they took him there, right after they slew all of his sons in front of him so that would be the last image that he ever saw.

And the king of Babylon slew the sons of Zedekiah before his eyes: he slew also all the princes of Judah in Riblah. Then he put out the eyes of Zedekiah; and the king of Babylon bound him in chains, and carried him to Babylon, and put him in prison till the day of his death.
~Jeremiah 52:10-11

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Re: EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 11 & 12

by lappinglivingwater Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:17 pm

I know that there are some Star Wars fans out there, and this could tick some of you off, but when I read Ezekiel and how God was upset that other false religions were being allowed into the holy practice of worship, this article is exactly a representation of the types of things that they (and we) were being warned against:

German Church Celebrates a Star Wars Themed Service to Bring Young People into the Church

To me, this is not just "good sport". This is an example of how the children of Israel got tired of waiting for Moses to come down from the mountain, and told Aaron, "We're tired of waiting: make us gods that we can worship."
"If you can believe, all things are possible to the person who believes."
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Re: EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 11 & 12

by sassy1506 Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:07 pm

lappinglivingwater wrote:I know that there are some Star Wars fans out there, and this could tick some of you off, but when I read Ezekiel and how God was upset that other false religions were being allowed into the holy practice of worship, this article is exactly a representation of the types of things that they (and we) were being warned against:

German Church Celebrates a Star Wars Themed Service to Bring Young People into the Church

To me, this is not just "good sport". This is an example of how the children of Israel got tired of waiting for Moses to come down from the mountain, and told Aaron, "We're tired of waiting: make us gods that we can worship."


I agree with you all the way on this one. I love Star Wars, but going that far with it is too far. Did you know that Jediism is officially recognized as a religion? That makes me uncomfortable...
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Re: EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 11 & 12

by lappinglivingwater Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:26 am

Don't be anxious or afraid. It's important to recognize these things because I personally believe we were made for such times. That's why we are reviewing what we are reviewing - so we'll know what we are supposed to do in these days. :D
"If you can believe, all things are possible to the person who believes."
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My posts reflect what I believe; please don't take them as me telling you what you have to believe - your time in study and prayer will tell you that.
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Re: EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 11 & 12

by ECCENTRICSHEEP Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:32 am

We can't do too much Star Wars theme in church anyway...because black is the bad guy color in Star Wars, and I like wearing black. I don't wanna wear brown and white robes all the time either. I'm gonna go make myself a black robe :P
THE ECCENTRIC SHEEP MUSINGS

TO THOSE IN THE FIGHT AGAINST DEPRESSION
http://jesuswired.com/eccentric-sheep-m ... epression/

SELF INJURY AWARENESS DAY POST
https://jesuswired.com/eccentric-sheep- ... ury-story/
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Re: EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 11 & 12

by notebooknut Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:50 am

ECCENTRICSHEEP wrote:We can't do too much Star Wars theme in church anyway...because black is the bad guy color in Star Wars, and I like wearing black. I don't wanna wear brown and white robes all the time either. I'm gonna go make myself a black robe :P


Haha yeah Court. I'm a Sith personally. Or at least a dark jedi
I do like what you were saying Michael. I don't think it's wrong to like the movies (I'm a big fan myself) but it is too far when you start to actually believe and think of the force as a real religion.
- Maddie

"Opposite as the day and night
As different as the sun and moon is
This is the reality of my duality
This WE needs to become a ME!"
- Jonathan Thulin, Jekyll & Hyde
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Re: EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 11 & 12

by ECCENTRICSHEEP Mon Dec 21, 2015 12:51 pm

yes dark jedi, that is a good way to explain it...I like that, then I can be dark but be the good side lol
THE ECCENTRIC SHEEP MUSINGS

TO THOSE IN THE FIGHT AGAINST DEPRESSION
http://jesuswired.com/eccentric-sheep-m ... epression/

SELF INJURY AWARENESS DAY POST
https://jesuswired.com/eccentric-sheep- ... ury-story/
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Re: EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 11 & 12

by notebooknut Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:49 pm

Yup. I don't want a cream colored tunic. Black is my color, blue is my blade. I'm a dark jedi!
- Maddie

"Opposite as the day and night
As different as the sun and moon is
This is the reality of my duality
This WE needs to become a ME!"
- Jonathan Thulin, Jekyll & Hyde
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Re: EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 11 & 12

by lappinglivingwater Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:55 am

Courtney really hit on the name of that chap that died in Ezekiel 11 - Pelatiah. But there is something that is interesting, that shows us that this man, in name only, was representative of the "remnant of Israel", and why Ezekiel would cry out, "Ah Lord God! Will You make a full end of the remnant of Israel!?"

Pelatiah's name is translated above as "Yahweh provided escape". The tool that I use translates it as "whom Yahweh delivers". But note that this person is the descendant (the "remnant") of Benaiah, whose name means "whom Yahweh has built up". Benaiah is clearly representative of the nation of Israel, and Peletiah is representative of the most recent generation of that nation.

I also love that God provides "a little sanctuary" to those believers that have been scattered around the world. He will remove their heart of stone and provide a heart of flesh (to be echoed in Ezekiel 36, a chapter that Paul cites in Romans 2). This little sanctuary always reminds me of when Jesus said, "When you pray, enter into your closet, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father which is in secret; and your Father Who sees in secret shall reward you openly." I believe the Sermon on the Mount was given on the Mount of Olives, and the glory of the Lord in Ezekiel 11:22 also comes to rest on the "mountain which is on the east side of the city"... which is the Mount of Olives.
"If you can believe, all things are possible to the person who believes."
~Mark 9:23

My posts reflect what I believe; please don't take them as me telling you what you have to believe - your time in study and prayer will tell you that.
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Re: EZEKIEL CHAPTERS 11 & 12

by lappinglivingwater Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:09 am

There is something else that is interesting about Ezekiel 12 that should clearly ring out exactly what "end" we are talking about, and what this entire book helps us to learn about. God gets upset with the fact that people are saying, "The end won't come, our days are prolonged here" in verse 22. Peter also talked about this exact same attitude from people in the end times:

That you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation."
~2 Peter 3:2-4



But God says in Ezekiel 12:23, "The days are at hand, and the effect of every vision."

Jesus says something similar about the end days in His end times speech in Luke 21:

And when you shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh... these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
~Luke 21:20-22

"If you can believe, all things are possible to the person who believes."
~Mark 9:23

My posts reflect what I believe; please don't take them as me telling you what you have to believe - your time in study and prayer will tell you that.
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