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ECCENTRICSHEEP
 
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Re: HEBREWS CHAPTER 1

by ECCENTRICSHEEP Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:56 am

That is a great point about angel worship. Someone like me who has never worshiped multiple Gods is like "Yeah of course Jesus is above them, duh!" Not everyone then was like that.

*Insert Theocracy's song "Alter To the Unknown God"*

You even see bowing to angels in Revelation there and the angel saying don't bow to me,

Revelation 19:
9 And the angel said[a] to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.” 10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Revelation 22:
8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me, 9 but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.”
With hammer in hand, I began to pull out every nail. Every board I placed beside me on the damp ground. After many years of pouring everything I could into avoiding that way, I found myself walking there once again.

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ECCENTRICSHEEP
 
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Re: HEBREWS CHAPTER 1

by ECCENTRICSHEEP Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:08 am

KJV
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person,

ESV
3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature,

NLT
3 The Son radiates God’s own glory and expresses the very character of God

The Message (Courtney is not fond of The Message bible)
This Son perfectly mirrors God, and is stamped with God’s nature.

NASB
3 [d]And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature,

NIV
3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being

NKJV
3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person,



That exact imprint, exact image, exact representation means a lot to me. That wording helps me out a lot and explains a lot to me.
With hammer in hand, I began to pull out every nail. Every board I placed beside me on the damp ground. After many years of pouring everything I could into avoiding that way, I found myself walking there once again.

eccentricsheepie.wordpress.com
chris630sews
 
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Re: HEBREWS CHAPTER 1

by chris630sews Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:35 pm

In Hebrews chapter one you see some of the greatness of Jesus and his saving work. Jesus is superior to the angels and he is classed with God rather than with men. Jesus is exalted far above all creation.
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Re: HEBREWS CHAPTER 1

by lappinglivingwater Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:05 pm

This book is great. Very deep. An excellent OT illuminator.

I think it was important to establish Christ in this chapter because so many of the Hebrews did not believe Jesus was the Messiah. They thought he was a blasphemer, and still many do this day. They eventually began to teach that He was an Egyptian magician who tried to lead people astray. Sad, really. But as St. John wrote, “He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.”

He is the personage and exact image of God. As Jesus said, “He who has seen Me has seen the Father” (John 14:9).

I don’t say this lightly, or to start fights, but because it helps me to piece the Word together. Bibles used to note that this was Paul’s letter to the Hebrews, my study bible notes that Paul is stated to have written a letter to the Hebrews (and if this isn’t it, where is it?), and I personally believe Paul wrote this book. It smacks of Paul to me. The statement that it isn’t stylistically consistent doesn’t convince me, as I know my own style has evolved over years of writing. Styles can change. But not only that, Paul states that he intentionally changes his style to suit the audience in 1 Corinthians 9:20-22. But it helps me to see Paul’s knowledge of the OT, and how he uses it to teach spiritual lessons from the old law, and how they apply today.

Looking forward to studying again with you all. God bless.
"If you can believe, all things are possible to the person who believes."
~Mark 9:23

My posts reflect what I believe; please don't take them as me telling you what you have to believe - your time in study and prayer will tell you that.
bolyami
 
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Re: HEBREWS CHAPTER 1

by bolyami Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:45 pm

I, being a literal type person and an engineer, have always struggled with the duality that is God sending his son Jesus but they are one being. (Actually, the same confusion applies to the trinity.) However my wife and I were discussing this chapter and slowly I started to gain an understanding to see it more as parts of God's mind for lack of a better way to put it. Up until the point that Jesus was born, God had not been tempted in the flesh. So to relate to man, he sent part of himself as Christ to experience what mortals must endure. It was God in his infinite wisdom that knew we humans can better relate to a being who has walked in our shoes. The part of God that is the Christ has been through our trials and it makes it easier for our limited minds and hearts to look to him as a guide....in essence God sent Christ to lead from in front and not from above. Basically Jesus can tell us "been there, done that, and I took the heat for it so you dont have to." Certainly my veteran type language is probably apparent but we all draw from what we know to help us gain understanding of what we don't. And it is this thought that draws me to favoring verse 3 in Chapter 1.

If I'm off base, please let me know as I'm eager to learn more and grow. To be honest, Hebrews has always been one of the harder New Testament Books for me to grasp so I'm very thankful that it is where we are studying. God Bless!
stearn786
 
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Re: HEBREWS CHAPTER 1

by stearn786 Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:23 am

My Bible has a note regarding why the author made it so clear that Christ was superior to angels. Apparently there was a Jewish sect at Qumran (where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found) in the early first century that was teaching that the archangel Michael was of equal or surpassing authority to the Messiah. This may have been the context and reason behind the very clear explanation of the relationship between Jesus and angels, especially given the general belief that this epistle was directed to the Jews.
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Re: HEBREWS CHAPTER 1

by lappinglivingwater Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:25 pm

I really enjoy the study notes in “The Companion Bible” by E.W. Bullinger. Here are the introductory notes for Hebrews from my bible.

“THE EPISTLE TO THE HEBREWS. INTRODUCTORY NOTES.
The general subject of the Epistle is that the Messiah of the Old Testament Scriptures must suffer as Man (i.e. as Incarnate Man), and that Jesus is the Messiah.
ADDRESSED. “To the Hebrews”: to the nation under its earliest name, Palestinian Jews and the Diaspora (John 7:35) alike. Outwardly for believers (cp. 6:8; 12:15, 16; 13:10).
AUTHORSHIP. The arguments in favour of the Pauline authorship are much more weighty than those in favour of all other candidates put together, and they may be stated thus:---
1. The thought and reasonings are Paul’s, whatever the style and language may be. All his other epistles were written to churches mainly composed of Gentiles. In addressing such an epistle to Hebrews, he would naturally write as an instructed scribe, one brought up “at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers” (Acts 22:3). It is therefore futile to argue that if Paul were really the author, the language and style would have been in exact accord with those of the other epistles. Had this been so, it would be an argument against, and not in favour of, Paul’s authorship.
2. There is a certain amount of external testimony that Paul was the writer, but none as to any other.
3. The testimony of 2 Pet. 3:15, 16, strictly interpreted, proves that Paul wrote an epistle to the Hebrews, and if this is not the epistle,
where is it? No trace or indication of any other has ever been found.
4. Its anonymity is eminently in favour of Pauline authorship. The suspicion with which the Jews regarded Paul, and their furious hatred of him (cp. Acts 21:21; 2 Cor. 11:24; Phil. 3:2; 1 Thess. 2:15, &c.), would be ample reason why, in addressing so important a letter to his own race, he should withhold his name. If it was necessary at the time of it publication to send out such an epistle, equally necessary was it that it should not be handicapped with a name regarded generally by the Jews as that of an infamous renegade. The argument of the value of an unsigned article in any important journal applies with great force in the case of Hebrews.
5. DATE of writing and publication. Owing to the fixed idea in the minds of most commentators that the reference to Timothy in 13:23 (see note there) must have been connected with the Naronian persecution, the date is usually assigned to a period shortly before the destruction of the Temple, which took place late in A.D. 69 (Ap. 50. VI). The very latest “guess” is that “it may have been written at any time between A.D 65 and 85”. This is vague and unconvincing. In Ap. 180 the chronological position of Hebrews is shown, A.D. 53- 54. Modern tradition places it after 2 Tim., circa A.D. 68. That the former is correct seems clear for the following reasons:---
(a) If Hebrews was written in or about the year 68, Paul’s ministry had existed for twenty-two years (since his and Barnabas’s “separation” for the work, in 46, Acts 13:2) without the aid of a written statement of such paramount importance as this. What was the immediate object of publishing then, only a year or two before the destruction of the Temple, and very shortly before his own death (2 Tim. 4:6), so weighty an argument that Jesus was both Messiah and true Man, and as Man must have suffered? That the Old Covenant was ended and its place taken by a New (Heb. 8:13)? It is incredible that the apostle who was inspired to write and publish Romans at a comparatively early date should not have been allowed to put forth Hebrews till the very end of his ministry. “To the Jew first” is verily applicable in this connection.
(b) Paul was at Jerusalem for the Council meeting (51) when the very subjects of Hebrews had evidently been bitterly discussed (Acts 15:5—7). Shortly thereafter he writes Thess. 1 and 2, both of which contain poignant references to “shameful treatment” at the hands of his own people.
(c.) Some authoritative statement must be placed in the hands of even an early ambassador in regard to new and altered relationships between his supreme head and those to whom he is commissioned and sent. The 1919 Treaty of Versailles may be used as illustration. No representative there reported ultimately by word of mouth to his country, but by presentation of a copy of the entire Treaty. So with this treatise-epistle. Paul, as God’s ambassador to the Diaspora and Gentiles, must have had some documentary argument, proof, and testimony, in support of his (and of Timothy’s and others’) oral teaching and instruction, for circulation among the “many thousands” of Jews who believed at and after Pentecost, yet all of whom were “zealous of the Law” (Acts 2:41; 4:4; 6:7; 21:20), and with whom Paul and his fellow-workers must have come into contact. To Have attached his own name to this would have defeated his purpose, as above mentioned.
(d) The approximate time therefore for writing and publishing such a body of doctrine must have been shortly after the beginning of his ministry, and, consequently, Hebrews was in all probability written during the eighteen months of Paul’s sojourn at Corinth, during which he was “teaching among them the word of God” (Acts 18:11).
(e) Lastly, weighty support is given to these conclusions by the position Hebrews occupies in the four most important MSS., N, A, B, C, and in others. In some MSS. Hebrews is found in different positions with regard to the other books of the New Testament. In certain it appears as it stands in our Bibles, but in these four, N (Codez Sinaiticus), A (Codex Alexandrinus), B (Codex Vaticanus), and C (Codex Ephraemi), it is placed after 2 Thessalonians. This testimony to the foregoing is significant, and is not to be lightly set aside.”
"If you can believe, all things are possible to the person who believes."
~Mark 9:23

My posts reflect what I believe; please don't take them as me telling you what you have to believe - your time in study and prayer will tell you that.
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lappinglivingwater
 
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Re: HEBREWS CHAPTER 1

by lappinglivingwater Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:33 pm

Bullinger also notes that chapters 1 and 2 are doctrinal introductions to Jesus as the Messiah that all those who would be called Hebrews (both the Jewish people who had come out of captivity from Babylon, and the “dispersed” 10 tribes of northern Israel from before) were waiting for. Chapter 1 explains how, as the Son of God, Jesus is better than the angels. Chapter 2 explains how, as the Son of man, Jesus was made lower than the angels.
"If you can believe, all things are possible to the person who believes."
~Mark 9:23

My posts reflect what I believe; please don't take them as me telling you what you have to believe - your time in study and prayer will tell you that.
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lappinglivingwater
 
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Re: HEBREWS CHAPTER 1

by lappinglivingwater Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:27 am

I love that the book opens up declaring that God had spoken in the past by the prophets. A study of the prophets is highly rewarding. (If you're new to this study, take a look at past posts. We studied the "major" prophets a couple of years back (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Daniel - know as "major" due to the length of their works, and not the importance of their works.)

But also now God has spoken by His Son. The most widely-dispersed and concrete of these teachings are recorded for all in the gospel, and by what the apostles have written in the epistles of the New Testament, and are closed out by St. John's revelation (in Revelation). All of these teachings agree with one another. (I believe that there are personal lessons that anyone, or any group, can receive directly from God. But I also believe these are personal in nature, and were not meant to be delivered to all like the gospel was.)

Opening the book this way is inspiring, as it lets us know that - HEY! - God... the Almighty God Who created the universe... has a message for us. For you and for me. Very personally. As one of His children. (Which we get into a bit more in chapter 2.)

Also in this chapter, the author declares that Jesus has obtained a more excellent name by inheritance than any of the angels. This is alluded to when the author says that He (Jesus) Himself has already purged all of our sins, making Him our Saviour, a feat that the angels have not (nor do I believe could have) done. As a fan of onomastics (the study of the origins and meaning of names), lets look at the names provided of the Son and of angels (only angels of light here) in the Bible:

Jesus = "God's Saviour" (Matthew 1:21)

Gabriel = "mighty man (warrior) of God" (Daniel 8:16; Luke 1:19)
Michael = "who is like God?" (Daniel 10:13; Jude1:9; Revelation 12:7)

Yes, Jesus has a more powerful and excellent name than the named angels in the Bible. Glory be to it.
"If you can believe, all things are possible to the person who believes."
~Mark 9:23

My posts reflect what I believe; please don't take them as me telling you what you have to believe - your time in study and prayer will tell you that.
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lappinglivingwater
 
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Re: HEBREWS CHAPTER 1

by lappinglivingwater Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:51 am

stearn786 wrote:My Bible has a note regarding why the author made it so clear that Christ was superior to angels. Apparently there was a Jewish sect at Qumran (where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found) in the early first century that was teaching that the archangel Michael was of equal or surpassing authority to the Messiah. This may have been the context and reason behind the very clear explanation of the relationship between Jesus and angels, especially given the general belief that this epistle was directed to the Jews.


It's sometimes important to teach what some people may consider blatantly obvious, or given. There are teachings today in the Catholic church to pray to Mary and to the saints for intercession from God. (Not taking anything away from how special these people were and are to God, this to me is the same as praying to angels, and is taught against later in Hebrews.) Also, Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus is Michael the Archangel -- and I could see where the language could lead to that conclusion, except for where Daniel notes that Michael is "one of the chief princes", and not the single chief, and Revelation clearly separates Michael from Christ (as John recognizes Christ Jesus immediately, but doesn't connect Him to Michael later on in the Revelation). So there are still misunderstandings as to the nature and relationship of God and all of His children, including the only begotten -- and teaching the very fundamentals is still important, especially in times when society continually moves away from God, and gives more attention to fables and fairy tales (that make billions of dollars in revenues every year in movies, games, tv shows, etc.).
"If you can believe, all things are possible to the person who believes."
~Mark 9:23

My posts reflect what I believe; please don't take them as me telling you what you have to believe - your time in study and prayer will tell you that.
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